Thursday, October 23, 2008

Ta-boo-hoo

Religion and politics. The two topics that we can’t discuss if we expect to get along with each other. Paradoxically, we can’t truly cooperate unless we do talk about these quasi-taboo subjects.

For my friend who likes “operational definitions”, this is the vocabulary I use when discussing these issues:

Religion-social (political) belief (spiritual) systems consisting of a vocabulary, a set of paradigms, and interpretations that can be shared and communicated among separate individuals. As a social construct, religion is used to coerce people to behave themselves.

Politics-the efforts of individuals to cooperate with other individuals. This can be as small a group of two or as large as everyone on earth (and beyond if it comes to that).

Spiritual-that which is beyond rational understanding. It is always purely subjective. It includes God concepts. Often that which is beyond rational understanding becomes rational as we learn more. Then the concept shifts from the spiritual realm to the political realm. Sometimes a rational discovery leads to more questions instead of answers. These questions can go in the spiritual column until answers are found. Science has taken many concepts out of the spiritual realm into the political realm. It has probably added just as many.

For instance primitive people when exposed to technology they didn’t understand, put this technology into the spiritual column. (cargo cults) Modern humans, when faced with information they don’t understand will 1. try to understand it 2. dismiss it altogether 3. or like the cargo cultists, put it in the spiritual column.

Religion is particularly troublesome because it combines subjective beliefs with politics in ways that are often destructive. Some people like Bill Maher (an individual who expresses a narrow perspective), ridicules religious beliefs, devalues these beliefs, and focuses on the negative about religious beliefs. I take it he thinks that religion should be disposed of altogether because it makes us worse instead of better. Lots of people have suggested this theory for a long time without much widespread success. Religious ideas wouldn’t survive if they didn’t serve some very important need in human beings.

Empirical thinking is a relatively new to us humans. For westerners anyway, it dates from only as far back as 17th century Enlightenment. Sometimes I wonder what thought was like for people before the Age of Reason. I doubt issues like the literal truth of religious beliefs came up very often, because it wouldn’t have made a difference in the way these individuals used their religious paradigms. After Enlightenment things were different. The truth of empirical data began to intrude into the commonly accepted truth of religion. Whereas previously people cooperated (or didn’t cooperate) on the basis of religious paradigms, Enlightenment provided another way. This new way was seen as a threat to the old paradigm. The whole structure of society could crumble under the scrutiny of the ever growing accumulation of empirical data.

I have never believed in taking away a person’s beliefs or ego defenses without having something to offer to take it’s place. Our beliefs are essential to life. We can’t function without beliefs. It’s scary when these beliefs are attacked. It is comforting to find beliefs that give life structure and meaning. Facts, empirical data, are tough. They can be denied and resisted, but they win out when people are bombarded enough. When facts conflict with beliefs that are important to people, they get scared. They have to change their world view to accommodate this new information. This is hard for some people. Eventually, religion found ways to give up the flat earth for a sphere. Religion learned to accommodate some facts, but in a one-to-one battle, the facts against religious myth, religion lost every time.

I wonder if that is why it is so important to some people that their religious beliefs be the same as empirical fact? The risk is that these important religious paradigms have no power against the almighty fact. To keep the myths alive as viable paradigms to modern people, the myths had to be seen as factual as well. People dig their heels in instead of adopting new paradigms and different beliefs. Mainly, I think people literalize myth, not to convince others that they are right, but to convince themselves that their beliefs and world views are worth believing. For many people, secularists and religious alike, there either is no spiritual truth or spiritual truth has taken a backseat to empirical data. Beliefs have become worthless unless they are factual. There is power in having faith in a fact, even an unprovable fact. Faith in spiritual truth is felt to be faith in nothing at all.

I see a tug-of-war between the skeptics like Bill Maher and religious literalists. From my perspective these groups are more alike than different. They are versions of the same thing. Skeptics often have very flawed reasoning because they are prejudiced against so many ideas that they don’t understand. Unless a person is willing to be open to the possibility of truth of an idea (no matter how outlandish it might seem) , they will not be able to understand it well enough to honestly argue against it.The literalists do the same thing in reverse. They are unwilling to accept the limitations of their beliefs by considering the possibility that they may not have it right themselves.

To me, both groups come across as arrogant and smug, lacking humility and openness to others. The skeptics throw out the baby with the bath water. When they devalue religion, they concurrently toss out spirituality. And the religious do the same thing. They cut God’s balls off by confining him to rational limits. By focusing on the literalness that can’t be substantiated, they, too, ignore the spiritual realm where God properly presides. Both the skeptics and the religious ignore the major part of what it is to be human. Our spiritual aspects.

I believe in God. Primarily I think of God with my traditional language of Protestant (Baptists don’t think of themselves as Protestant) Baptist Christian augmented with other ideas that make sense to me. In fact, I should say that I know there is God. I can’t tell you about him (that’s just a word, “him”). As I’ve learned more about how those different from me think about spiritual matters, I have learned that my inability to talk about God is probably a good indicator that I’m on the right track. Our Jewish tradition says that the name of God should not be spoken. The Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. God is beyond language and reason. The simplest way to put it in Christian language is God is love.

I don’t think people take those three words very seriously. Or they’d be nicer to each other. It does beg the question, “What is love?”. It’s hard to say that, too. All I can say about that is if you are able to get your own ego out of other egos, get rid of your projections and introjections, (sorry about the Freudian words, but I’m in a hurry and they were the first ones I thought of), when you realize that you are alone and separate and that every one else is alone and separate, too, there is love. It’s about connection and separation at the same time. That’s as good as I can do. Sorry. But that much I have confidence in. I’ve got to go.

I’ll end with some profound words as sung by The Grateful Dead:


... if you fall you fall alone,
If you should stand then who’s to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home.


Next: I'll get to the relatives and the political church sooner or later.

9 comments:

thruid3 said...

Word.

Check out Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth:"

You might be surprised to find that the ancients knew quite a bit more than we give them credit for. Check this out:

"The size of the earth

Even more impressive than the fact that the ancients knew the shape of the earth is that one of them was able to measure the size of the earth as well. Eritosthenes was born in Cyrene about BC 276, and was educated in Alexandria and Athens. He later settled in Alexandria, where he was the curator of the famous library there, generally considered to be the best of the ancient world. He also wrote poetry and studied philosophy and astronomy.

Eritosthenes noticed that at the location of modern Aswan in southern Egypt, objects cast no shadows at noon on the summer solstice. Obviously the sun is directly overhead at that time, and today we would say that that location is on the tropic of cancer. At noon on the summer solstice in Alexandria in northern Egypt, objects do cast shadows. Measurements of the lengths of the objects and their shadows revealed that the sun's rays made an angle of seven degrees with the perpendicular to the ground at noon on the summer solstice. This means that the difference in latitude between Alexandria and Aswan is seven degrees. Thus, the linear distance between those two sites is 7/360 of the circumference of the earth. A measurement of the distance between the two cities gave the size of the earth directly, though there is some question of the measurement units used, and hence the accuracy. The answer that Eritosthenes calculated was either within �% or 17% of the modern value. He actually hired a guy to step off the distance between these two cities so he could make his calculation. "

jackie said...

Yeah, I was trying to keep it simple and stick to a narrative I thought would be familiar.

I've read several of Joseph Campbell's books including a very old and tattered and scribbled in Skeleton Key that is usually on my bedside table.

Oh, yeah. Alan Greenspan has taken the blame for the financial meltdown. He's "shocked" that he was wrong about the free market all these years. Free Market didn't work like he thought. Should have had more regs. He feels bad about it. I forgive him.

thruid3 said...

Campbell was a smart guy.

Yea, Greenspan finally took some responsibility. The CRA created the huge subprime mortgage market. The GSE's and CDS's took care of the rest allowing massive speculation in subprimes.

jackie said...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/homes/2007/03/the_cra_and_the_subprime_marke.html

This is a blog by Jesse Jackson from last year that gives a little different perspective.

I'm still seeing bad banking practices as the problem, not the CRA. This article mentions that the Federal Reserve is responsible which was confirmed by Greenspan yesterday.

jackie said...

As to the financial crisis, I've got to say that several things contributed, not the least of which was plain old fashioned greed.

To the topic of mythology, I'm going to pull my old copy of "The Power of the Myth" off the shelf. I know exactly where it is. That series was about 20 something years ago. Our kids were little. I was working nights at MMHI in Memphis. Thanks for the suggestion, Alan.

Campbell's books, especially, I've gone blank on the names, about the Hero and the other had the word Mask in the name, taught me a lot about parallelism and importance of mythology (religious myth included). Also, Robert A. Johnson's book "He" (and some of the others to a lesser degree) influenced me. I haven't thought of this one in a long time-"Iron John" by Robert Bly, I think. This book suggested that our old stories and myths were not working for us anymore. I think he said that we needed a new mythology.

I doubt that mythology can be created from the top down. It would have to manifest spontaneously among the people. I'm not sure in this day of research and fact checking that a widespread mythology could develop. I figure new interpretations of what already exists is what is necessary for this stage of life on Earth.

I was thinking about how religion and cognition work to form beliefs. I thought that the cargo cult model might shed some light on the process. I found a funny story on this website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2267426

"In the native view, the Christians worshipped the god Anus. He created Adam and Eve and gave them cargo of canned meat, steel tools, rice in bags and matches. He took it all away when they discovered sex and he sent a flood to destroy them, but he gave Noah a big wooden steamboat and made him the captain so he would survive. When Ham disobeyed his father his cargo was taken away and he was sent to New Guinea. Now his descendants were being given a chance to reform and regain their cargo. All through the twenties the natives patiently worked hard, sang hymns and prayed to Anus. But by the thirties it became clear that the missionaries were lying; they had been good Christians and worked hard, but it was the foreign bosses who did no work that got all the cargo.

They were not yet ready to abandon Christianity, however. Instead they formed a new theory in the interwar period: Jesus Christ had been kidnapped by a combination of the European missionaries and a conspiracy of Jews, whom the natives knew from Bible stories. He was trying His best to help out His people in New Guinea, but the power of the Jews was keeping the cargo under wraps. He was being held prisoner at or near Sydney, Australia. In preparation for his imminent escape, they slaughtered their pigs and massed in the cemeteries, camping out for weeks at a time."

Oh, my Anus!

Canned ham! Descendents of Ham! Killing pigs! Kosher conspiracy of powerful Jews!"

I can see this.

thruid3 said...

I over stated the case when I said CRA created the financial crisis. I should have said it was part of the creation of the crisis or was a contributor. The GSE's and the "financial instruments" which were used by investment banks were probably more of a cause.

Vern Mckinley, a Ron Paul
Republican (libertarian) has worked at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Federal Reserve board. He wrote the most comprehensive review of the history of the bill and its consequences I have seen yet. Check this out, its a very good article. I think it was first published at the Cato Institute.


http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv17n4/vmck4-94.pdf

If the financial crisis had been a plane crash, then greed was the gravity but the GSE's, CRA, CDS's and very low interest rates, represented a bad mechanic screwing around with the controls.

I have a very good DVD of Bill Moyers interviewing Campbell. He gives his thoughts on religion and the power of myth. He had a gentle nature that made you feel like you were receiving wisdom from a kind grandfather.

I think myth can come from anyone with a good story. As Campbell suggested, it has to ring true to human kind or possess a truth or moral that is instantly recognized by an ordinary person.

Between patients yesterday, I retreated to the call room and got a snack. I turned on the TV and saw Palin talking to someone about the troops in Iraq fighting to preserve our freedom. Insulting.
I grew up watching Vietnam play out on a 17 inch black and white TV screen while eating supper with my family. Like a lot of Americans, I suspected a disaster in the making. I think Cheney, Rumsfeld (like Renfield, Draculas roach eating assistant) and their disciples were trying to position the U.S. for the consequences of peak oil (Hubbert) and wound up with effects they had not planned on. I don't think that after a trillion dollars our government is going to evacuate Iraq. Draw down, yea........evacuate the superbases? I don't think so. We'll see on that one.

I got behind yesterday when I was hit with 3 ambulance runs, 5 chest pains, a stabbed boyfriend, and 2 strokes within about a 30 minute time frame. That's not counting all the primary care stuff that was in the background. It made me think of running. Not for exercise, but as in running out the door. That has actually occurred at least once that I know of, and no, it wasn't me. If Obama does something to improve the health care crisis in the U.S. he will have my admiration and gratitude for sure.

The idea of a black man, or biracial man (even better) pleases me because if things go well, it could go a long way to heal the racial divide in the country. I feel a different vibe from black people I have never met. In the past I have gotten a feeling sometimes that as a stranger, I have to earn their trust. In the ER, there is almost always an instant positive regard that I feel. I think it is the "Obama effect." Maybe things will work out for the better.

jackie said...

Sorry you had such a rough shift, Alan. Bless your heart. I hope you are resting well. I know, though, that you rest just to get up and do it all over again.

Thanks for the link. It's hard to find good understandable information about this financial disaster. I don't know what it actually means to me personally or if I will do anything differently. I suppose it illustrates how wrong "experts" can be and how, just because "everyone else does it that way", or "we've always done it that way", doesn't mean they can't be dangerously mistaken.

I haven't thought much about the "Obama Effect" as it relates to domestic conditions. I thought how G.W. Bush (and the "Bush Doctrine") has such a narrowly western U.S. perspective (to Hell with the rest of the world) that is unappreciated by the global community. Obama would be more of a global citizen who could connect and repair the damage from the last eight years of the U.S. showing the world our ugly backside. I have a hard time seeing Obama as "black" because he didn't descend from slaves like most of the African American people I know. I heard a funny story about some polling in rural Pennsylvania last week. Polling an older couple about who they intended to vote for, the wife said she wasn't sure. She called to her husband and asked, "Who we gonna vote for?" The husband called back, "Tell 'em we're gonna vote for the "n....." word."
That may be the leading (or trailing) edge of where we are as a country. The residual racism doesn't have much bite.

I hadn't thought of that Bill Moyers series in a long time. Might be a good time for a refresher.

Jackie

thruid3 said...

He is a brilliant man no matter what his background. I just hope he doesn't try to do too much too fast before the economy can absorb it. I wish i knew where this market was gonna bottom out.

I am really aggravated with the guys at Merrill Lynch. What a bunch of liars and crooks. The brokerage half of the firm was pressured by the investment side to push stock in companies that the knew were worthless in order to gain favor with the companies that owned those stocks and then lure them to their investment bank side. They got caught and were sued in a publicly reported case this past year in New York. They had to pay almost half a million in restitution to an investor but they of course admitted no wrong doing in the case. Elliot Spitzer, the New York Attorney General was making his move to win political points but went down in flames when the prostitute thing came out. I bet ML orchestrated that as payback. The final straw came when I called my broker a month or so ago and he wouldn't make a trade in a company without consulting his "compliance officer". He later called back and told me the CO said no. WHAT!? But its my money I said not believing what I was hearing. Gene, my broker finally figured out I was going to leave ML. He called me the next day and said "I have called the corporate office and they have (Gene unfurls official decree) "DECIDED TO GRANT AN EXEMPTION!" After I stopped laughing, I thanked Gene for his herculean efforts and said no thanks. I would like to use an online account but I am too big a chicken. "No Mr Atkins" you don't have an account with us anymore, don't you remember closing it out last week"? I can't get that scenario out of my head.

Sometimes I feel over my head in the ER and wonder how am I gonna get through this without killing someone ! I somehow find a way to muddle through. You don't do that job without some casualties though. My brother in law, a small town doctor once told me, "you are gonna kill some" followed by a hearty laugh. I didn't know quite how to take that, but I know what he means now. It just gets harder and harder every year. ER's are at the breaking point. Patients are WAY sicker than they were 10 yrs ago, and the volume is way up. I gotta hold out for at least another 7 to 10 yrs though to get my boys through college. After that, I will probably get cancer and wither away. Hahahahahaa !

Here is a Halloween story for ya. I once treated a woman many times in the ER named Modine. I had probably coded her 4 or 5 times in the past. Each time she would eventually come off the vent and get discharged. She used to always come in with severe congestive heart failure which was very hard to treat because she also had renal failure so you couldn't just give her lasix to drain the fluid off here lungs. One night, she came in and didn't appear to be as sick as usual, (no tube required) but I admitted her and was surprised to hear code blue called on the overhead intercom 10 minutes after she went upstairs. I knew it was her. When I got to the foot of the bed CPR was in progress. I went through the usual algorithms but she finally progressed to asystole (flatline). I called it. As the nurses were leaving the bedside she suddenly sat up ! I looked at the monitor which was still attached and it was STILL showing asystole ! That should not be possible! The hair stood up on the back of my neck. She appeared to be looking past or through me with her right hand raised as if she was reaching for something. She held that position for a few seconds then fell back on the bed. I wonder what she saw?

Happy Halloween !
Alan

Get Keith to tell you the rain machine story some time. It is a dandy !

jackie said...

That's a couple of truly scary stories, Alan. I'm not sure which one is more chilling, the horror of Merrill Lynch or The Patient who Refused to Die.

Ewwwww.....
Jackie